Brandel Chamblee

Polished, popular and, without question, polarizing.  And among golf’s top analysts, his personal drive to be the best is unrivaled.  

On this edition of Tracks To Success, you’ll meet Brandel Chamblee - a PGA TOUR winner, commentator and author who’s truly found his voice in the game after years playing it at the highest level.

Chamblee opens up with Kraig Kann, who he sat beside for nearly a decade covering golf’s biggest global events.  Uncovered are topics like childhood, a college career that created lasting memories, the importance of a Tour win and the challenge of television after a family tragedy and a torn marriage.

Brandel addresses his fans, has words for his critics and shares the secret to his successful climb in a profession that is often unkind to even the best.  Kann pulls answers to the reason he doesn’t fraternize with players, the motivation for his books and lands the surprising answer to what might come next.

If you watch golf and know golf, you know of Brandel Chamblee.  But not like this!  So don’t miss a special golf focused edition of Tracks To Succes!

Transcript

0 (4s):
Welcome to Tracks. To Success brought to you by presentation partners. This is the podcast that brings you inspiring people and they're inspiring stories. How did they find their way to the top and how can their path help you do the same? Here's your host network, broadcaster, executive and entrepreneur. Kraig Kann

1 (28s):
Right now on this edition of Tracks To Success meet a man. I know. Well, and if you love golf, a man, I know, you know, he's gone from top young talent to prominent college Starr, to professional Tour player to, to wear a winner. And then he made a choice, a professional pivot, and that divot that he pulled his career in a completely different direction, taking him off the course and putting him front and center on your television screen. In a short time, he became one of the game's most recognizable faces and strongest, most influential voices.

1 (1m 10s):
Fans of the game may love him. May not really like him, but they definitely heard of him. And they always seem to hear him. But how much do they really know about him? He's a father, a husband, a mentor, an author, and one of sports, top analysts, not a big shot, a big tournament, or a big story goes by without an ear waiting for his take But know this he's dedicated to his craft, determined to make a positive impact and driven to make his next point is best point. His name is Brandel Chamblee is inspiring story.

1 (1m 54s):
And this edition of Tracks To Success starts now. Well, my OMI isn't this a thrill. I am, I am really excited about this Brandel I haven't interviewed one person completely dedicated and tied to golf yet for Tracks To Success and you, my friend are in a tag. How are you doing?

2 (2m 19s):
I'm great. First of all, I don't recognize you without a big bowl of chips and salsa in front of them. You know, it's weird that you and I are going to spend an hour talk and when we're not on T V and we don't have a Mexican food in front of us, but a what I'm great. I a, I could be better to keep them busy. You know, golf's been pretty darn active through, through COVID fortunately, as we've all sort of dealt with this a traumatic experience, but otherwise pretty good knock on wood.

1 (2m 45s):
Well, I could of put some chips and salsa here, but I just didn't have the time I wanted to get right into this. And I went to go hard and heavy on you and, and put you in a real uncomfortable position. So here we go. As your friend and former colleague, I can say this, and I mean, this, your success story to me is inspiring. Now, some people might say it's irritating. Okay. I say, it's inspiring. And I want to start with this. The New York times has as said two things about you. Brandel Chamblee number one, they labeled you. The golf channel is resident scholar and critic. Is that a label you're comfortable with?

2 (3m 27s):
Well, you know, I, I don't know, you know, you know, that that label, you know, it, it may, it may work for them trying to put me in a corner, I suppose, but, ah, you know, my job as an analyst is to, and I've said this many, many times, and by the time I come on the air, almost everything that could have been said about the golf, the game and golf has been said, so I have to work really hard to come up with something that the audience that's tuning in has a, has never heard, or hopefully hasn't hurt and sad it in a way that is meaningful or impactful or memorable. So I work really hard to bring something new to our audience in state it in a way that they remember.

2 (4m 12s):
And that takes me down a lot of different rabbit holes. And I I'm have the belief that, that everything can be great, you know, to, to truly qualify something. And it was great. Their has to be every iteration going all the way down to that, which struggles. And so I try to be pretty accurate or as accurate as I can be with the information that I have and people want to call that critic are critical to me. I'm just an analyst and everything can be great if you're an analyst, if something, if everything is great, when something that comes along, it truly is great. You had no credibility, you know, platitudes purlative leaves those or like the fact.

2 (5m 0s):
And I try to stay away from the fat and get right to the meet. And that's, that's hard. It takes a long time. It takes a lot of work. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

1 (5m 9s):
I've lived a few of those rabbit holes with you. The New York times also said that you have truly found your niche. Do you believe that to be true in what you're doing?

2 (5m 21s):
Well, I, yeah, I think so. You know, I enjoyed my career playing golf certainly, you know, 15 years or roughly 15 years playing in the Tour and about 20 years playing professional golf. And I certainly enjoyed it and I did it from the time I was 13. It's like golf until roughly 2004. So that's a big chunk of my life. But the reason I went into TV wasn't because I was playing bad or I was injured. It was for two reasons, one, it was to be home more and spend time with my family or more time with my family, friends. And then beyond that, it was because I didn't want to just do one thing for my entire life.

2 (6m 6s):
I wanted it to try my hand at something else and I I've always been inquisitive and I've always enjoy the written word in the spoken word. And when you put those together with my knowledge of golf, I think that, yes, I've, I've found a place that I'm quite comfortable with. And I'm, I'm probably, you know, if, if we're being truly objective, I'm probably better at this job than I was to sit and play professional golf.

1 (6m 40s):
I would, I would say you're definitely very good at your job. And I know that to be true, we're going to go through your success story and I'm going to take you all the way back. Cause I do want to hear about childhood in all, but I'm going to ask you a straight up question. You just alluded to it. You had years of consistency, you were a very good player. You did win a PGA tour event. You did ultimately make a pivot, lose your card. A full-time playing privileges was that ultimately Brandel based on what you just said, the best thing that could've happened to you given your new found success in your mind.

2 (7m 17s):
I don't know that it's the best thing that could of happened to me. I'd like to think I just made the best out of a situation that perhaps wasn't ideal. You know, the reason I wanted to spend more time with my family and be home more was because, you know, we had a tragedy in the family and you know, I, I lost a child and, and the process of grieving, you know, my marriage became unraveled and you know, it is we're, they were tough times and I needed to be home more. And I was on the road and, you know, I was looking out the window, you know, finished around a golf and I, I didn't yearn to go to the range and practice, which you have to do.

2 (8m 4s):
And I just no longer felt that fire and I wanted to be home. I wanted to be somewhere else. So you know, this new trajectory and none of us can make these definitive plans. You just try to make the best out of it. And for me that, you know, I mean, that meant diving in trying to learn the art of being on TV and, and, and get comfortable with it. But I've always enjoyed putting myself in situations that, that scare the hell out of me. You know, if, if I'm nervous to do something and it makes, you know, and that's a good song, you know, it was a new Avenue in life. I didn't know anything about it. Wasn't a particularly good at it initially, but I just worked hard at it.

2 (8m 46s):
So I tried to make the best out of this new path that I was on. Yeah. And I, and I think, you know, the same things that made me successful golf have proven to be useful in my new endeavor and those, or, you know, there is nothing new there, they are just hard work. You know, I M you know, I, I love to work. You know, I love to get up early in the morning and, and, and work til late the evening. I don't need a whole lot of sleep. I enjoy reading and studying, and then thinking about what I'm going to do, and then having a good attitude, you know, a good attitude is, is paramount, you know, and, and try to positively affect everybody around me.

2 (9m 33s):
That's the goal. You know, you, you fall short of that, of course at times But, but the goal is to, you know, have a good attitude so that you affect in a positive way. Everybody that comes into contact with you.

1 (9m 46s):
Well, I was there when you came to the golf channel and you just took me down the path, I was going to get to a little bit later, but I'm going to go to it right now, losing a Tour card or a plane career. Full-time however you want to say it is nothing, nothing compared to losing a child or losing a marriage or the things that you went through. And when you came to the golf channel, did you feel that life had unraveled? Did you immerse yourself into something that deep because of what you were going through? I mean, were you in a situation where you felt lost to some degree?

2 (10m 25s):
Yeah. I mean, I don't think anybody gets through life on skates, you know, life can be troubling, you know, and, and, and you try to bear that burden. You know, I mean, I think there is, you don't want to be the, you know, the babbling person in the corner of who can solve problems. And so, you know, life comes at you and in a different way than you anticipated, you pivot it and you try to make the best out of it and try to try to be the person that people can depend upon you. And, you know, tragedy falls on a great number of people, you know, and it's, and, you know, you, you, you deal with it, you know, you try to deal with it as best you can, you know, family and friends matter perspective matters, attitude matters, reading widely matters to get other people's perspective.

2 (11m 28s):
And, and, you know, you, you grieve and that, you know, I I'll never get over a loss of, of Braden. His name is Braden, it hurts, but, but you've got to go in and make the best out of what a life has dealt. You know, when I got the golf channel. Sure. Yeah. It was a new world for me. I was a new endeavor, something never done before. I didn't feel like I was, you know, I didn't know. People always say, you know, you start to be yourself, but you know, it, it is very easy when you first get into the TV world.

2 (12m 8s):
I think this is this true in other areas of life as well, where you, you see other people do things, did you emulate them and you kinda lose, and it's, it's good to emulate. Sure. But you want to find your own voice. And it took me a while to figure out who I was in TV, what I might be able to add to the world of golf on TV. And so, yeah, it was fine in my way, so to speak carving out of new ground, and it was, it was uncomfortable. And, you know, I had to sort of hit rock bottom and, you know, I did the best I could to pick myself up and rebuild and, and, and move on,

1 (12m 54s):
Found a voice for sure, pretty quickly you became one of the voices in the game very quickly as well. I want to take you all the way back. We'll get back to, you know, communication and what you do on golf channel and some of the memories that we lived. And just a bit, I'm going to go back to you being born. Not that you had to remember that day, but in st. Louis and in the mid-west and the type of kid that you were a growing up, were you the kid that was into all sports Brandel, were you the kid that, that was a, a yapper and had something to say a big reader down at the library? Tons of friends. What, what would they have said about Brandel Chamblee at that age, you know, eight, 10 years old?

2 (13m 36s):
Well, I grew up in a big family and a happy family in a, in an engaging family. You know, my dad was still is, you know, and in a very engaging, wonderfully funny, good humor, man. And my mom, his is a sweetheart and solid a sounding board for everybody in the house. But yes, I mean, we grew up in a very active house. I played every single sport, you know, besides hockey, because, well, we moved to Texas when I was pretty young and, you know, w there was nobody playing hockey then, but other than that, I, I played every sport.

2 (14m 17s):
I wanted it to be, I wanted to run track and in the Olympics. Right. And you know, a lot of the time I was 13 kids who were huge. And, and, and I, you know, I won lots of races and jumped pretty far and pretty high, but there were kids in regionals who were faster and higher able to jump higher. And then I went in to horses and I rode competitively for a long time. Did a lot of fun, crazy things on those. When I was 11, actually I rode my horse from Irving or Dallas, Texas to Lake Texoma is a hundred miles. I wouldn't let my kids ride their bike down the street when they were 11, without me watching them.

2 (15m 1s):
But it was a different time. You know, my mom and dad would drive out in the evenings, find where we had, and my older brother and I had set up Kann we were active or out all day long, right. In horses, playing football and baseball, jumping by, you know, just, we were very active and, you know, my dad supported us, you know, and, and in every conceivable way in my mom made sure that we got there and got back and had great meals on the table and did our homework. I went to bed and a good, a good, very good family, you know, but once I found golf, cause they had taken a friend of mine to go ride horses. And unbeknownst to me, he was one of, if not the top ranked junior player in the country.

2 (15m 45s):
And he said, you know, you gotta come up and play golf. I went out and played golf. I came home and told my dad, I think this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. That he was like, okay, but if that's the case, we got to sell the horse as you can do both. So he sold the horses, I went to golf and, and that was it. I found my calling when I was, you know, what I wanted to do in my life, really when I was, you know, right around 13 years of age,

1 (16m 10s):
Who is your biggest influencer? What is it? Your dad? Was it your mom? Was it somebody else that you remember and leaned on it?

2 (16m 16s):
My dad, my dad had a real can-do spirit. Umm, you know, there was nothing that, that was a hurdle for him. You know, I can remember my dad wanted to take me to go play our, wanted to go play this tournament called the Texas. Oklahoma junior is a very big term, but T Oh and it was played in Wichita falls, Texas. And I don't know what that is. That's a 150 miles away, maybe from Dallas. And this was during the energy crisis and the oil shortages and the gasoline lines. And, and you know, you had to go on a certain days. And I remember, you know, it, it was time to leave and he had a quarter of a tank of gas in a car and it wasn't his day to get gas.

2 (17m 2s):
And he was like load up. We're going. And I was like, Whoa. And then my mom, you know, she has a bit of a worry wart and she'll be like, well you don't have enough gas to get there. My dad's like, Oh a worry about I'll find a gas. Won't be good. Don't whoop. I promise you, someone's going to sell gas to me from here to there. And off we went and sure enough, he found some farmer who sold him some gas and we got to the Tio and I played in the Texas so-called Oklahoma. I never forgot that. You know, it didn't matter if there was something wrong with a car or the house that dad was like, you know, I'll get it, I'll do it. And he would do it. Perfect. You know, he was so patient, he was very patient man, a great attention to detail writing, drawing, talking, and mom was equally patient, but she was a writer and an artist, you know, always writing books, letters, poetry, always painting and you know, always taking care of the kids.

2 (18m 0s):
So I had a lots of great influences. Ya know, lots of

1 (18m 4s):
You sit glued to the masters at that age, taking notes or thinking about it. If golf was going to be your calling where you, where you that into it, then, you know, in your lead up to go into Texas and playing golf there,

2 (18m 17s):
I was the, you know, well, the first time that I can remember watching was a 75 masters out of 12 then. So my dad had taken me out to play golf at a time or two somewhere in there, but it was the 76, 12, 13. It turned 13 after the seventy-five masters. But at 76 of us open when Jerry Pate at the five iron out of the right. Rough, thank you. Beat John. I'm a happy by a shot. But anyway, I would go out in the backyard and try to imitate Jerry Pate's golf swing. So by 76, yeah, it was all in and watching every golf tournament, you know, I I'd get up and be out of the golf course before the sun came up and you know, I come home in the afternoon and watch the golf tournaments, but you can go out in the yard and hit golf balls over the house and down the street broke a lot of windows, you know, and stuff like that.

1 (19m 15s):
You can run fast if you broke the windows, I'm sure you were a pretty good, you picked Texas. It was because of their speech communication program. I know that was your major. You could have probably gone anywhere. Why did you pick the Longhorns? How did they hook you?

2 (19m 32s):
Well, I was watching the Texas, Texas a and M football game in 1977 Thanksgiving and Earl Campbell had a banner day and Earl Campbell was just, you know, running up one, ended down the other end of the football field and he'd get into the end zone and just draw up the football and walk back, no histrionics, no wild celebrations. And I just thought he was the classiest individual athlete I'd ever seen. And I just, you know, I, I, I thought that was synonymous with the university of Texas.

2 (20m 14s):
And at the time of course, Tom Landry was the head coach at the Dallas Cowboys. And they had such a great team, you know, with stall back and Tony Dorsett and Robert, or a new house in drew Pearson and that too tall Jones they were, but they were, and I thought university of Texas reminded me a lot of, of the way that the Dallas Cowboys handled themselves. You know, this was me watching football and imagining, umm, you know, UT instilling the values and the integrity into their athletes. Earl Campbell was an extension of that. So from that point On, and of course Ben Crenshaw, you know, was such a hero when you are in Texas.

2 (20m 57s):
Umm, you know, so I really want you to go to the university of Texas now T is not like almost every other school, certainly wasn't that time. I really, the school would have 12 to 15 university of Houston at the time. It would have had 30 guys on the golf team. UT had eight, you know, seven or eight really, you know, five played and they'd have a couple more so making that team. And there would only be one spot really are two spots open a year and they would always go to the highest ranked junior golf are in the country. And there was a fellow by the name of Tommy Moore who was, I think the best jr in the country.

2 (21m 40s):
When I was a senior in high school, Tommy decided to go to Oklahoma state and that opened up another spot. And the UT coach came up to watch me play in the Texas state junior. And he drove out to this par three that was a 210 yards wind blowing left to right water and the front park behind the tee. I hit my tee and the water hit the next bowl and the water, it hit the next ball in the water and I make it a nine. And I thought, man, I guess I'm not going to UT. And I, you know, the coach stuck around for a couple more holes and then he left and then out of the blue, a few months later, I'll get a call to come down to UT on a, on a visit.

2 (22m 27s):
And I mind you, I was looking at a lot of other schools and there was interest elsewhere, but I really just wanted to go to UT. So I go down there and I go to a lot on all these trips and I go back and I'm in the coaches office. And I said, you know, coach Hannon is his name was George Hannon is a legend. I said, you know, I honestly, I, I was really surprised to get you a call. I didn't think that you would want anything to do with me. You drove out and I made nine and he goes, yeah, he, he had a real funny affectation when he talked, he said, yes, shambles. He never called me in the bud jams. Yes, shambles, you did make a nun. He goes, but you know, you burned those next two holes.

2 (23m 8s):
And that told me more then that night and told him and I, I don't even remember birdie. And the next two holes, I just was devastated by the nine and thinking man, that's it. My shot is going to UT is over. But he said, you know, those birdies, they told me a lot and you know, he offered me the scholarship and I went to UT and one of the, one of the highlights of my life is going to the university of Texas. It was a phenomenal experience. We're the number one team in the nation. We won a great many tournaments. I made first team all American. I had great teammates, friendships. I still had. I graduated and I made a lot of the enduring friendships and have a phenomenal memories from that place.

1 (23m 58s):
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1 (24m 46s):
There are a lot of athletes, scholars, and there's a lot of scholar athletes. And one of the smartest guys I've ever worked with in television, because of the effort that you put in to everything that comes out of your mouth, perhaps that speech communication majors that you were talked to me about the PGA tour. Brandel a lot of people listening to this are watching this don't know our history or that much, maybe about golf. What's tougher getting to the TOUR or staying relevant on it in your mind.

2 (25m 19s):
Well, getting to the Tour I would argue is easier because you're not competing against the best players in the world. The best players in the world are already on the PGA tool. So you're competing against players who are either trying to make it or who have lost their games and have split down into an area where they're trying to. At that point, there was a qualifying process. Now then you qualify to get onto a essentially minor leagues. And then you earn your spot on the PGA tour through the minor leagues it's known as the Korn ferry tour. Now it was the Ben Hogan for it then, but when I first was trying to get on the tour, there was a three-step process.

2 (26m 5s):
You had to go to a local qualifying where it would be, you know, probably 50 different places within the country, where there was a local qualify and there would be to 300 people at that local qualify on and they would take 10% of the field, 20, 30 players, and they'd moved to a regional. And again, there'd be another 25 regionals and there'd be two, 300 people there and they might just take 10 people and then you'd move to the final. And the final would have 300 people and they would take 50. So they might start out with seven, eight, 9,000 people in the qualifying process and you end up and you were one of 50.

2 (26m 48s):
So that's how you qualify for the Tour. I qualified for the Tour a couple years after I got out of college, I missed couple of times played many Tour events, wherever I could not find any event that was offering money, make it green features are introverts were huge. But you know, I was doing very well. And those events then making, you know, for a kid out of college, I was making good money playing in many Tour, but I qualified for the Tour and 1987 and 87. So I was a rookie in 1988. And then once you get onto the PGA tour, you have to play well enough to maintain a position and the top 125 of the money list.

2 (27m 32s):
Now it's FedEx cup, but then it was my list. So you're competing against the best players in the world to stay out there. You have to be extraordinary. You know, I mean, look, I wasn't an extraordinary Tour player. I was a good tour player, but you have to be an extraordinary golfer to just in general and you have to be mentally tough and you'll have to persevere and be able to deal with diversity and all of the things that are applicable to every other Avenue of life. You know, the TOUR is not unlike regular life. And if you play well, it's a fabulous lie. If you struggle, it's miserable. You're on the road. You're away from family and friends and your staying in hotels, eat at restaurants.

2 (28m 17s):
And if you're not playing well, it's almost as if you have some virus that nobody wants to catch. You know, they, they didn't nobody, they don't say it, it it's unspoken, but a promise you that there are people playing the Tour right now or struggling. When they walk in the locker room, nobody knows what to say to them. Nobody wants to be around them. Really. They don't want you to talk to them. And they, you know, cause it's, it's this vibe that you just, you, two are, players are notoriously superstitious. And, but if you are playing well, you know, everybody wants to be your buddy. Everybody wants to be your friend, everybody who wants to be around you in and participate in that party.

2 (28m 57s):
So it's a, it's a weird world a bit, and it's a selfish world. If you've got to be good at it. So there was a part of me that really enjoyed the tour. But after a while I thought, you know, I'm, it's a very selfish endeavor golf. Yeah.

1 (29m 12s):
Yeah, it is. I hear that from a lot of guys. Now you, you had, you had Success out there, you kept your card for a great number of years. I mentioned that already, you did win on the tour in Vancouver. You had a couple of close calls and playoffs one before and one after, when you won that tournament in short Brandel, was that more a career changing career defining for you or was it more life changing life defining altering for you? There's a difference.

2 (29m 42s):
Yeah, it came late in my life. You know, I won in 98, so that would've been 36 years old. So I was already physiologically, I would say on the sort of the down slope of my career, it was more than anything. Suite validation of all the work that hard are days and nights that I put in to my golf game. You know, it, it, it didn't change my life in any way, really, other than the fact that I got to play and, you know, a few more events that I wouldn't of gotten to play in, but you know, it didn't really change my life materially.

2 (30m 26s):
It was, it was certainly not then, but I, you know, I would say that that one victory, believe it or not, and this is the way things work as you know, doubtful is if, if I would have been able to ascend to a level in television without a victory, you know, to be able to set up there as a former TOUR winner and they, and they need to have these titles to be able to refer. If, you know, people refer to David Duvall is a former number one player in the world, you know, and if you've worn on Tour you were a form of winner on the PGA tour.

2 (31m 8s):
If I hadn't never one, you know, I don't know. Maybe I would've been a TV, I don't know. Hmm. Yeah. In terms of you get lifelong membership on the PGA tour, so a few other perks, but you know, it meant more to me probably later in my life than it did at the moment.

1 (31m 28s):
And I'm sure it means more now. And you talked about the voice, finding your voice. I talk about that a lot now, more so than ever for people to find their voice, to have a say so to say something that matters. So many people talk very few, have something to say, very few, have something worth paying attention to, it's not that easy as you were finding your voice and we were doing shows together, how quickly Brandel did you figure out? We've never talked about this, that people do hang on your more so than mine are others, right? As an analyst, they hang on your every word and they associate everything with you at a different way than other people. Was that difficult?

2 (32m 8s):
Well, I would say it took a bit and it took a while, you know, when you first get in to TV, you know, and we had asked people in the business, you know, what do you like? What are you don't like? And they're like, well, don't, don't sit like this, or don't, don't do that. Or don't wear that tie or don't look like this, look at the camera, don't say this. And don't say that. And you're just, you're filled with all of these ideas and thoughts that although they were well-intentioned, you know, when you find your voice, you can sit like that. You can wear this time and you can say all the things they told you not to say. And the same person that gave you, all of those sort of admonishments will go great job.

2 (32m 51s):
'cause the difference of having their voice and not having your voices in the way you say things. And you know, I think, you know, the TV is not unlike, Oh, like an x-ray and it, it, it reveals, you're a comfort level. People can tell when you're comfort comfortable in uncomfortable with what you're saying, but to have a voice, you have to, at least in my view, you have to say something that is different than everybody else. And so to do that, you need to read more broadly than everybody else. If you're just reading golf, you're going to say everything like everybody else, you're going to sound like everybody else.

2 (33m 33s):
So I've always tried to read as broadly outside of golf, you know, anything, literature, poetry, science fiction, you know, politics and look for analogies. Metaphors that may be, it might be relevant. It might help make your point in a better way. Comic strips, archetypal stories. You know, I, I, you know, made the analogy once you have tiger woods after his scandal to Superman and the app, the analogy was that, you know, when Superman was first envisioned and the drawn, he had no weaknesses and he could change orbits and jump tall buildings and solve every problem.

2 (34m 36s):
And while it was mildly, moderately successful, it wasn't until the authors of Superman came up with the idea of kryptonite. I know that he became monstrously popular. Hm. The idea that a superhero could have a weakness was more relatable to people and intriguing. And, and so, you know, tiger while he spent most of his career doing things that none of us could fathom or imagine post scandal dealing with all of the existential issues that he was dealing with was relatable.

2 (35m 21s):
And so in a different way, he was more popular or more intriguing and after the scandal. Okay. And so, you know, you look for analogies and different ways, bring your point to, to some clarity. And that's, you know, you'll have to sit and think a lot. You have to So it to have a voice. Yeah. So I mean, it, it, it is important. I have a voice, but it is important to turn everything off and get alone in this think things through. So if I have a point, I want to think about the weakest parts of the point, what's someone where are their weaknesses? What are they a ways to confront those weaknesses, make your argument better, make your thoughts better, make a more precise, make it a more concise, make them a better, more memorable, a change there.

2 (36m 11s):
And don't be afraid to change your opinion. If you think of something tomorrow that you hadn't thought of today, or a new evidence comes along, the proves your previous position, your hypothesis incorrect, then change your position. I was recently reading a, a column by Jeff Bezos and he was asked the question, how do you get it? Right. So often any Andy. And he said, look, when he's hiring people and he starts to try to figure it out, you know, who can get it right. And who's not going to get it right. It's like the people who get it right more often, or the ones who change their opinions the most, it is the most dogmatic people who are wrong more often.

2 (36m 55s):
And Andy and I, you know, there's, there's such a, there's such weight to that. You should like, you know, you're always evolving, always looking. Yeah.

1 (37m 5s):
Yeah. It's interesting. We, we can sit here guaranteed with tons of time or little time and tell stories about great tournaments, great players, a great memory is all the things that we lived. And to me, for Frank, with you, I actually don't really care to do that. I want to know how you feel about certain things. Some things that we haven't necessarily talked about it, I'm going to ask you three questions, three kind of quick hitters, all tied to how you feel about things. People could potentially say about you are to you and I'm going to get your reaction. And they're all linked together. The first one is what would you say to people who say this guy's full of it?

2 (37m 45s):
I'd say the same thing to those people that I would, the people who say that I'm the best analyst in all of a sport, which, you know, people will say it to me from time to time. And, and while I, you know, I'm, I'm not belittling their compliment or their criticism, I believe that you should be able to hear the harshest criticism and the fondest compliments and treat the two have the same. It matters to me what my family thinks of me. It matters to me what the people who employ me think of me and maybe my closest friends.

2 (38m 29s):
But beyond that, I, I go in to every show, whether it is, you know, a lesser event or the biggest event that we cover. And I treat them the same. I studied from sunup to sundown. I think about it all day long. I try to be fair. And when the camera comes on, I try to have fun. If people think I'm good at my job after that, or if they think I'm full of it after that, that that's fine. I mean, everybody is entitled to their opinion. And you know, someone can watch somebody put on a great show and think they're terrible and someone else can think they're great. It makes no difference to me what people think.

1 (39m 7s):
So what would you say to people who say, Oh, this guy is full of knowledge beyond anybody that I've seen, and he is a true encyclopedia. Maybe you just answered that. What would you say to them?

2 (39m 17s):
Well, again, I, you know, I, I, I certainly respect other people's opinions and there is an element of truth to most criticism. And so, you know, but if you believe the hype, it's not going to help you. And if you believe that the criticism, for the most part, it's not gonna help you. So I try and to be unaffected again, a course, you know, we all have a, a negative bias. You know, we, we hear criticisms and those tend to stick with us more than compliments because people tend not to believe the compliments and they tend to believe the criticisms is just the way that we're all hardwired.

2 (40m 5s):
But you have to have, you have to have your own ideas in your own thoughts, in your own value system. And of course, that's backed up by your closest friends and family, but you have to have those to hold you in. Good stead in a world that is subjective as TV is, you know, when I first got into TV, I was, I was taken aback by how insecure TV watch, because it's not unlike golf or, you know, golf is purely objective. You should, at 65, nobody can tell you it was bad. You shoot 78.

2 (40m 45s):
Nobody can really tell you it was good DV. You finished the show and you feel like you did a great job. Plenty of people can tell you did a terrible job. And then some might tell you, you, you did a good job. It is very subjective world. And I, I, I, I sensed all the insecurity of TV, the TV world. And I thought, I don't want to be like that. I don't want to feel like that. And so I, you know, I came up with my own criteria for what constituted, a good show, which is to work as hard as I can be fair and have fun. Yeah. And if I do that at the end of the show, I don't care if somebody tells me it sucked, or somebody told me, he tells me it's Emmy worthy.

2 (41m 30s):
It doesn't matter to me. So

1 (41m 34s):
Full of it. Full of knowledge. And then there would be some who would say full of himself. What do you say to those people?

2 (41m 44s):
Again, you know, I M you know, I think is important to have humility. There are plenty of things that have happened to me in my life that that gave me reason to be humbled. But, you know, I, I think it is important to have an elephant, an elephant, an element of, of humility, but you know, it, it, it's also important to have confidence in what you're doing, you know, and, and confidence comes from hard work. By the time I get on TV and I'm making an argument, I've thought the argument through, and I don't do research to back up my opinions.

2 (42m 29s):
I do research to discover my opinions. So by the time I've, you know, at the time I am making an argument for something on the air, I'm pretty confident in that argument. And I love to debate. I love to have a nice back and forth between somebody who looks at an issue different than me, because when that happens, that I learn the forces you to make your argument better. Lets you know, it makes you aware of where you are arguments or a week. And you know, it sends you back to the drawing board in most cases.

2 (43m 11s):
So I enjoy the back and forth, but there's nothing wrong with having confidence, confidence. It just comes from hard work, you know, a false sense of belief that doesn't last very long. You know, I think people can see through that. You w you have to have a, the substance to what you're what you're talking about.

1 (43m 33s):
Season two of Tracks To Success is brought to you by presentation partners, presentation partners is a unique team of award-winning executives, helping you build a presentation. Others will be talking about presentation. Partners teaches you the true art of storytelling. And if you haven't heard about their neuroscience of persuasion, you'll see how valuable it is to own it. Whether you're a company or an entrepreneur presentation partners is the team you need behind you for almost 15 years. They've helped clients raise millions in capital and countless dollars in sales simply by making top leaders successful presenters. The time is now to find your authentic voice and learn your authentic story, presentation partners, creating a persuasive story presentations based on something other than just your good looks talking with Brandel Chamblee here on Tracks To Success good friend of mine, a guy truly respect I'll share my opinion of what I believe and just a little bit about his talent and a what he does for the game of golf.

1 (44m 39s):
Brandel I'm a tell a story. A, I don't know if you remember this or not, but there was one time I was not scheduled to do a, the 1230 show you were. I was on the golf course. I got the phone call. Kelly Tillman was sick. They said, rush in here. I was gonna do the seven. And I got there with 30 minutes to go before Showtime through my suit on jumped in the makeup chair, you walked in and said, well, canner, I don't think we are going to kill anybody with information today. And I said, Nope. Cause I miss that meeting. I said, Brandel what we are going to do is we're going to kill them with entertainment value that you said, well, then let's go. And I always remember, and I tell this story to a lot of people that was one of the most enjoyable half hours.

1 (45m 19s):
I couldn't tell you what I said or what tournament we were doing, but I know I had fun in doing it. And I'd tell that story because I want to ask you how much of, what you do. Do you truly believe in the game of golf, which has such a storied game, right? Is entertainment or do you worry? Do you worry about not giving enough information and making it too much fun and laugh?

2 (45m 45s):
Yeah. You know, like the entertainment, I think the entertainment aspect of it is you need to be aware of it. I mean, people tune in to be entertained informed as well and entertained. And so the ideal show is informing them while entertaining them. But if you set out to be funny, you're going to like, you're probably don't flop. I don't know. Being funny is one of the hardest things to do. You know, I watch various comedians own TV and they're the best in the world. And you know, and I'll turn to, you know, my wife Bailey and we'll watch it. And I'm like, you know, the very best comedians are funny, a little more than a half.

2 (46m 29s):
The time laugh out loud, funny about half the time and the other half the time, you know, whatever, you know, comedy, it's hard and that's not, that's not, that's not anybody's forte. As far as I know and TV

1 (46m 45s):
Chemistry's hard. Chemistry

2 (46m 47s):
Is hard. Yeah. You know? And when you have chemistry with somebody you're working with it, it, it, it comes through. Well, the important part, his eye is if you have fun, I, I remind myself this, when I get up in front of people, I'll get I'll segue here real quickly. I was asked to give a talk once in front of a, a woman's club or the travelers. The travelers had a, has a woman's day, 800 leaders, a female leaders, women leaders in the community. And from all over the country, came together eight a hundred people. And they asked me if I would come out there and do a Q and a for this group.

2 (47m 31s):
And I said, yeah, absolutely loved it. And so I get there to do a Q and a, and you know this right? If you're doing a Q and a, you don't need to prepare, are you asking you questions about you? I think I know me pretty cold is different than if you're asked to come up and give a one hour speech. So anyway, I get there early, like 15 minutes early for the two and a half, and I'm listening to the lady up on stage. She was a tremendous, doing a great job in two to three ladies come over to me and they say, you know, a nice view to come in. Really nice. If you can not wait to hear your speech. And, and when she said it to me, I said a speech. And she said, yeah, you're, you're giving a speech where we've got you scheduled for 45 minutes.

2 (48m 13s):
They were following this lady here. And you're Oprah Winfrey is after you. And I mean, incredible group of people and credible leaders. And so when she said that, now there's two or three people in front of me and there are two or three people beside me and they all want to talk. Right. They want to have fun. And it just hit me that I have to come up with a 45 minute speech, not a Q and a, and I thought, and these are leaders, business, corporate leaders. And I say, you know, what, what am I going to tell them, what am I going to do? And so, as I'm trying to also engage with all of these people around, I thought, well, I'm going to talk about the dynamics of TV and the process and tell a few stories, the worst and most embarrassing things that have happened to be on the air.

2 (49m 7s):
But what I reminded myself was this gets back to your point was to have fun, because if you have fun, your audience is going to have fun. So I remind myself and it's very easy to get caught up in all of the, the minutia before you go in the air, because people are throwing papers that you hear a shot, shot, shot, and If Bo and here's the one down and we're doing this and we got that graphic. And you've got to go into that. You have to take a deep breath and go, people are watching me and their underwear on, in their living room. OK. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not cutting a brain tumor out a second. You know, this is meant to be fun.

2 (49m 47s):
Yeah. And you have to just, you know, ride for that camera. It comes on. I always remind myself, have fun. Yeah. If you have fun, generally speaking of your audience is going to have fun.

1 (49m 58s):
I've had a lot of people come up to me over at the time and say, you know what? I'm addicted to the golf channel. I fell asleep to you many times. And I said, I don't know.

2 (50m 4s):
Well, you don't have to take that because I was like trying not to put you to sleep. We tried to have some fun, Hey,

1 (50m 11s):
Let me ask you this brand. A lot of people and whatever, they do try to climb the ladder and achieved success in their life. Something goes wrong and they get derailed and they never recover from that. Now, to be fair, you've been embroiled in a few controversies in a few rabbit, as you say, in, in your career on television, how have you, I mean, these have been pretty, pretty strong and people come at you pretty hard and you've had to deflect. How have you stayed the course? Brandel how have you stayed the course when everybody's aiming at you and they are being critical?

2 (50m 49s):
Well, again, it goes back to, you know, preparing, you know, when If, if you've done the proper preparation, then by and large, the things that you were saying are going to be defendable for the most part, you know? And if they come from the right place, you have to constantly remind yourself, you know, where is this coming from? Is this coming from the right place, from a place of, you know, analysis? And, you know, I, there's a reason why I've never really wanted to get to know the tour players. I don't want to live or dislike them because if you do, you know, you're going to have to say nice things about players.

2 (51m 34s):
You don't like, are you going to have to say critical things with players? You do like it. And I'd rather not feel one way or another about them. So, you know, yes. You know, I've been doing T V now for 17, 18 years on air a lot. And occasionally I've said a few things that I'd, I would of liked to have tackled myself before I said them. And if you think is, get out of your mouth where they weren't quite worded the right way and they can get you in a lot of trouble. So I try to be very, very careful about what I say. And, you know, again, there are a few times I've said things where, you know, I wished I would have phrased them in a different way, or hadn't said them at all, but by and large, if you, you know, and again, I, I try to be very careful about what I say and how I say things and say them exactly how I mean.

2 (52m 26s):
And if somebody's is critical, then I would've liked to. I like to think that I could defend my comments because I have thought of all of the criticisms of those comments. But again, I'm not critical of players, per se. I'm critical of something in their games or complimentary of something of their games.

1 (52m 48s):
And, and that said, Brandel, have you ever thought this just isn't worth it? I mean, this, honestly, I don't need this. Okay, I've done this for X number of years. I don't need to do this anymore. Bye bye. Exit set left.

2 (53m 4s):
And I saw Chris Collins. Suarez has a similar, a similar question. You said he came off of a game where you thought he had a fabulous show and he got on Twitter. And everybody was like, you stink your, the worst analyst of all time. You, you know that you got this wrong and that wrong, this wrong. And he was like, you know, don't get on Twitter, get a dog. If you're a sports animals, So the criticism comes with a job. You know, you could, you could be mother Teresa saying the most soothing, you know, it can give the most soothing message to humanity and she'd get skewered on Twitter. For some reason.

2 (53m 44s):
That's just the way it is. Everybody has a voice. You know, there's going to be plenty of people that find criticism with you, no matter what you do. And I remember the first year I was in TV talking to Terico and he said, you know, if you do the job right, half the people are going to hate you and a half. The people are going to love you. You know, you, it's the same thing with a comedian. You know, a comedian gets up and everybody in the room laughs, you didn't really do his job. You know? I mean, it may be great for it, even though it may have, you can get a lot of laughs, but you know, comedian, at least the way I view it, it's just to get to that edge. Right. And you save things that may be a half the room laugh and a half the room go, Oh, I can't believe he said that.

2 (54m 28s):
And you know, I think that's at least in my view, that would be the highest AME of a comedian. And it is certainly the highest form of an analyst is to make people think, and some are going to agree with you at some are gonna disagree with you. And the better you defend your argument, the more people will agree with you in the more people will hate your argument. Yeah. Yeah.

1 (54m 49s):
Johnny Miller sat in the booth for a long time at NBC, a long time. And when he relinquished that seat, my, my gut tells me that you would have loved to have had that opportunity to come your way, whether you did or you didn't. I will tell you this because people asked me what I thought about what might happen. And I always said, you know, something, I'm not Brandel coach. I believe I'm his friend. I know him as a former colleague. And I would tell you that he has a greater platform in a bigger opportunity is sitting where he sits down to be able to talk for longer about more in-depth things than somebody who is sitting there, giving you a quick analysis on one golf shot after the next. Would you agree with that?

2 (55m 28s):
Yes, I would. And you know, over the course of, you know, my career in TV yeah. I've had the eye, I've had the idea of replacing Johnny posed to me two or three times, at least by the people, you know, who, you know, we're in some position to make that play. And I, and I always say at the same too, you know, same thing to them. And it's was like, if you want me to do that job, I'd be happy to do it. It's a completely different animal than what I do now. Calling live golf is a completely different approach to what I do.

2 (56m 9s):
You know, I, I work in a very expansive world and that is, you know, a lot of quick hits. And I think the reason Johnny was so good at it, a couple of reasons, one, he devoted the time two it and Johnny is smart and he's unafraid and he hates platitudes. That's what Johnny was so good at that job. You know, I, I try to call a couple of live tournaments every year one because I enjoy the challenge of it and the change to what I normally do, but I do it also to get out and see the player's talk to some of the coaches and the managers, and to get a little bit of that flavor, just to sort of keep myself up to date with what is going on that contributes to go for Success.

2 (57m 3s):
Yeah. I also did that by playing some last year and will continue to play a bit on a PGA tour champions, but, but no, you're right. I have a much broader stage. I get to expound on topics, every single topic in the world of golf that has some weight to it. I get to take a stab at or not. You wouldn't get to do that in a live golf. Nope. So I, I quite enjoy it where I get to sit, who I get to work with. If I come in one day and I say, look, I want to do a five minute breakdown on, you know, Bryson de Shambo replanting his left heel more towards the target in transition, which has an incredibly nuanced move that it contributes to his, his power.

2 (57m 52s):
I can do it. Couldn't do that in light of cough. No, you don't have to, you know, you can do it, but you'd have to do it in 22 seconds.

0 (58m 2s):
In addition to hosting this podcast, Kraig leads the Kann advisory group focused on elevating communication for companies and individuals, company consulting, empowering team, and individual workshops, mind altering webinars. And Kraig inspiring keynotes for your conference or company meeting. They're all on the menu of services. Kann advisory helps companies clarify their message, helps professionals build and showcase their brand and helps everyone present their best selves. So if you're the leader of a team or company looking to give your employees a game changing one day experience or an individual who wants to become a speaker and presenter that gets other people talking visit Kann advisory.com.

0 (58m 51s):
And when you do connect, make sure to mention the Tracks To Success podcast to receive a special discount on any of the Kann advisory services. That's Kann advisory.com. Now back to the interview, alright, you're a speech communication major, a couple of things that want to focus on a day that I get to talk about a lot more than I ever did before that's keys to effective communication, knowing what your audience is looking for, thinking about the outcome that you're looking for, having a real message, making people remember

1 (59m 22s):
What they're supposed to remember. Those are all things that most people don't think about. And I saw a recent study where it was talking about the number one thing, and there were 11 skills listed. The number one skill that companies are looking for post pandemic are in today's current landscape. And number one was communication skills, effective communication. Now you communicate on TV. My segue here is you're also an author times to two books that I know of. What made you do that? And is that part of your communication and your message legacy? Why did you do it?

2 (1h 0m 2s):
Why did I write the books? Well, I wrote the first book. Well, the anatomy of greatness, a commonality is the greatest things of all time because I wanted to read it and it wasn't out there. I wanted to know what the greatest players of all time. It it's easy to say, you know, you can swing your swing and you know, everybody does it differently, but that's, that's, I mean, there's, there's some truth to that, but they also have some commonalities and I wanted to read the book and it wasn't a author. So I decided to write it, which was a fabulous two three-year experience.

2 (1h 0m 43s):
The second book I I've just finished is the, again, its the anatomy of greatness, commonalities have the greatest putters have all the time. And again, I do enjoy the study of that. I'll go back and say, I also wrote anatomy greatness, commonalities of the greatest things of all the time, because instruction was going down the wrong path and I wanted to swing instruction back. Or my goal was to swing instruction back in favor of the player in favor of the athlete, it was going down a, a, a very theoretical path and it had gotten off the rails and I thought it was impoverishing men and women alike and professional golf and amateur golf for that matter.

2 (1h 1m 29s):
And as a result, golf instruction is changed. You know, you see more players lift in their lead, heel, more players turn in a deep into their right hip or their trail hip. That's one of the reasons why Phil Mickelson gained length last year. It's one of the reasons why it brought us into Shambo has gone away from the golf swing and when it came onto it or the one that is allowing you to hit the ball at nine miles now, golf, golf, and its reason, Matt Wolfe is, you know, it gets the ball so far. So, you know, from that perspective, I feel like I, I achieved my goal. So writing books, you know, there's that adage and in a academic world, a publisher perish, but I, I believe publishing books, you know, it won, it requires you to spend two, three years in a deep, deep dive and it, it gives you a greater insight into what I'm talking about.

2 (1h 2m 23s):
So yeah, you know, I, I'm going to continue to try to write a book a year of working on my, finishing up the second book. I've got to do illustrations and pictures and so forth in, but I'm already about halfway through my third book and I'll continue to like, I'll continue to write as much as possible.

1 (1h 2m 40s):
I've I've gone in head first and I know the process, but it, it does challenge you. And it does put your life in perspective. As you start to put it into words, a lot of you comes out within your writings. I'm going to challenge you. Brandel Chamblee because I'm going to be a producer now and I'm going to say, all right, there's only so much time left in this little chat we're going to have. So I'm going to say a minute on each of these real quick lines and then a couple of big ones before we go, okay, in a minute or less define your brand, right?

2 (1h 3m 14s):
Honesty, truth. Well-researched a critical when he needs to be complimentary you when he needs to be. I think that pretty much sums it up.

1 (1h 3m 30s):
Anything missing on your resume that you haven't done?

2 (1h 3m 36s):
Yeah. I'm very interested in politics. I spend whatever free time I have left studying politics. That's not to say I'd like to go into politics, but the study of politics analyzing the political paradigms that have taken place in this country and how they contribute to the evolution of this country has a, a great hold on me and I, and I enjoy studying it. So, you know, it wouldn't bother me dipping my toe into that world.

1 (1h 4m 12s):
Golf channels, golf channel is changing addresses. Alright. A lot of people who have lost their jobs, a lot of people have, you know, seeing their careers kind of going in a completely different direction. Your take on the importance of anybody, no matter what they do, to be able to have a second act or a pivot in that.

2 (1h 4m 33s):
My dad said to me, when I was growing up, that there is, there is no better experience to be in your own boss. A professional golf was, was that I was my own boss. T V is the team a team game day end to all team games, man. You know, I don't know. I don't even know how many bosses I have to know a lot, but it is. I think it's, it's, it's very important to always strive, be striving to improve yourself. And you know, you, you know, as well as I do that, you know, when you meet a great number of people, you know, you, you can learn so much from everybody you meet.

2 (1h 5m 14s):
I mean, everybody knows something that you've you undiscovered by you. So, you know, you do, you keep active. If you keep a positive attitude, you keep learning and you keep you interested and curious, other opportunities will come your way.

1 (1h 5m 31s):
That's the thing you're most proud of your greatest accomplishment.

2 (1h 5m 38s):
Well, there's personal and professional and they are different, you know, I'm, you know, personally, I'm, you know, just being a father is, is, you know, there is no experience. Like it, it, it, it never ends. You know, I, I remember once calling my dad, my mom asked him some advice and, and you know, my mom and dad were like, you know, it just never, you never stopped being a parent. And that's true. My kids are 23, 18, 17, but a lot being present in their lives is a, is, is something that gives me great joy professionally.

2 (1h 6m 19s):
It's just a burning, you know, to get up and find something that I didn't know. I can share it with my audience.

1 (1h 6m 32s):
I'm going to say this right now. I've had the pleasure of working with you. I know you have a lot of things to say about a lot of topics and they're not all golf related. You pour yourself into your work. There isn't a word that comes out of your mouth or an opinion that you haven't said or have said that you haven't thought about before. It was actually said, that's a credit to you. My last question is this. And you can go wherever you want to Brandel. Is there anything that the audience doesn't know or have heard from you that you feel like they need to know about you?

2 (1h 7m 7s):
You know, I, I don't know. I mean, I, I think people are pretty good at intuiting. What someone's like, you know, I watch, I watch TV, you know, and I watch talk shows. I think I can get a pretty good sense of what the people who are like that, that are speaking. You know, what's important to me is a, is, is to dive into your work, give it all, you got people that have tuned in deserve that.

2 (1h 7m 49s):
But beyond that, it's having humility. You know, a lot of people are struggling and the world and they deserve our respect and they deserve our empathy. And you know, you spend a lot of time working, but the rest of the time you need to, you know, try to make as many people's lives around you is, is it is beneficial or as positive as possible so that they can go on and spiral that positivity, positivity, upwards.

1 (1h 8m 24s):
I've worked with lots of people in this, in this business, and I count you among the best I've ever worked with. And a, a very good friend and somebody, I respect immensely. Anybody that loves his game auto ought to be a big fan of you. Brandel I appreciate you spending time and I can't wait to see you soon.

2 (1h 8m 42s):
Craig, thank you so much for having me on. And I've been watching with, with some happy eyes as you move a carved out a new path in your career. So congratulations to you and thanks for the call and thanks for having me on it means a lot to me. I appreciate it.

1 (1h 9m 1s):
Brandel Chamblee has been my colleague and my friend for many years, as I said, I'm proud to have worked with him and glad that I've seen the work he puts in before we went to work to deliver a show. And that leads me to my one last thing, no matter what you do for a living, just like in television, there is a red light that goes on, which means you go, that's your time to present. That's your go time. That's your time to make an impact. That's your time to deliver words that will be remembered and your time to deliver them in a way that leaves people feeling something, nobody who has reached a level of success, just wings.

1 (1h 9m 42s):
It, nobody just turns it on and makes a real impact. They are looking for those who reached the top of any profession or industry, understand the importance of preparation and thinking about what they want their audience to see here and feel before it's time to present. My advice is simple. If you want to be an influencer, never short change the process that comes before performance, but in the time, well before, it's your time to do that in your Tracks To Success come a whole lot easier. Hey, do me a favor rate this podcast for me, give it a review before you share it with someone, you know, and if you have a guest you'd like me to talk to email me direct info@kannadvisory.com until next time I'm Kraig Kann thanks for listening.

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You've been listening to Tracks To Success brought to you by presentation partners, visual storytellers, passionate about connecting presenters with their audience. Don't forget to subscribe to the show for more great interviews and thoughts on reaching your highest personal and professional summit. You can follow Kraig on Twitter and Instagram using the handle at Kraig Kann and for exclusive Tracks To Success content and news about our upcoming guests. You can find Tracks To Success on Twitter. It's at Tracks To Success.